Hon Members, Correctionof Votes and Proceedings and theOfficial Report. [No correction was made to the Votesand Proceedings of Friday, 8 th July,2016.] [No correction was made to theOfficial Report of Tuesday, 28th June,2016.]
Hon Majority ChiefWhip, we may make a Statement today;but before that I would want to knowwhether there is any Paper to be laid.
Mr Speaker, we would be grateful if theStatement is taken first. We are getting our Hon Colleagues tocome in. Some of them are also at the Publichearing, so, we would try to get them in. Mr Speaker, we may take the Statementfirst.
Hon Member forManhyia South?
MrSpeaker, I thank you. Mr Speaker, I must commend the TableOffice for providing us today -- This is because I raised the issue lastFriday.
Provide you with what?
Mr Speaker, with copiesof the Regulations that were laid on Friday. I must put it on record that, they havecome in handy. I say so because there arestill some mistakes but that is beside thepoint. Mr Speaker, you asked the Hon ChiefWhip whether there were Papers to be laid. Mr Speaker, nine Regulations had beenlaid as far back as 22nd and 30th June, 2016. Mr Speaker, I mentioned them onFriday; but up till date, we have still notreceived those Papers. So, if they aregoing to lay more Regulations, please,add a caveat that if they do not give themto us by a certain date -- Mr Speaker, I say so because StandingOrder 75 is not being adhered to.
Hon Member forManhyia South, I have been informedthat, under the practice, there is onlyone printing press that we use as aGovernment -- that is the Assembly Press.I learnt that their place is choked. We should not forget that thedocuments are quite bulky, but I agreeentirely with you that we need to get thosedocuments as early as possible.
Mr Speaker, I can seethat they are very busy. But there is no reason -- From 22ndJune, 2016, three Regulations were laid.On 30th June, 2016, five Regulations werelaid. Mr Speaker, I am pleading with yourOffice, that if they are not prepared tofollow Standing Order 75, they shouldnot even bring any --
Hon Member, I agree withyou. The rules are very clear, that sufficientcopies must be available before it is laid.Once it is laid, copies must be distributed. Hon Majority Chief Whip, you are incharge of Government Business. Please,take note of this matter.
Mr Speaker, I havetaken note of this, and we would followupto ensure that all those -- Mr Speaker, I am surprised. I thoughtthat they would have been available andbe distributed. Now that he has raised this concern,we would do whatever we can to ensurethat the right things are done. Mr Speaker, thank you very much.
Very well. [Pause.] Mr Dominic B. A. Nitiwul -- rose --
Hon Deputy MinorityLeader?
Mr Speaker, the Chairadmitted that the documents were notready, but we laid them. Mr Speaker, as you said early on,Standing Order 75 is very clear and theClerk's Office should have receivedenough copies to be distributed to HonMembers before we can even lay them.Since we do not have them, do weconsider them to have been properly laid? Mr Speaker, I believe that until wereceive enough copies, we cannotconsider the documents to have beenproperly laid.
Hon Deputy MinorityLeader, the Hon Member for ManhyiaSouth has raised the point and I have saidit is a very important one. Now, we arebeing told that -- what we will do is that,if by the close of day -- [Laughter] --on Thursday, they are not here, then wemay have to take a second look at it. Thisis because I agree that we must havesufficient copies to be laid and distributed.This one is a technical problem, so, let usgive ourselves up to the close of the dayon Thursday. I will not take any point on this matteragain.
Mr Speaker, thankyou. In view of the ruling you have justgiven, please, can we ensure that beforeany Paper is laid, we get copies so thatthis is not repeated?
The rule does not sayso. Immediately --
Immediately it is laid,the --
Immediately it is laid, theClerk to Parliament must ensure that it hasenough copies.
So, immediately it is laidthe Chair orders for distribution and it isaccordingly distributed.
It should not happenbecause 22nd June till now, the days arecounting. So, we will deduct those daysfrom the 21 days that are supposed tobe --
Hon Member for Tarkwa-Nsuaem, I agree with you. Please, do notgo there, I have expunged that part of thestatement from the records.
Mr Speaker, it is rather,when the Clerk's Office has receivedenough copies before it can be placedon the Order Paper.
Yes. You are an HonMember of the Business Committee?
Mr Speaker, yes.
When you go toyour Business Committee, ask themthose questions -- the Table Office--
Mr Speaker, when theytell us that they have enough copies, wewill put it there, but now, we have realisedthat they do not have enough copies.So, we will withdraw it, so that the daywill start counting afterwards. Yes.[Pause.]
Hon Majority ChiefWhip, what Public Business? We willdefer the Statement for now as I told you.
Mr Speaker, thankyou very much. We will be grateful if wecould take item numbered 12 -- SecuritiesIndustry Bill, 2015.
Mr Speaker, as the HonMajority Chief Whip said, that weshould go back to the Securities IndustryBill, 2015, I may plead with your Office, that you please direct that he calls one ofthe Hon Deputy Ministers or the HonMinister to be here. Mr Speaker, these are not simple issues.I do not see any of the Bank of Ghana(BoG) officials here, neither do I see theMinistry of Finance officials, so, if you-- Mr Speaker, there are --
Is the BoG involved inthis Bill?
Mr Speaker, yes. On theSecurity and Exchange Industry, butthey are not here. Mr Speaker, worse of all, I do not knowhow the Hon Majority Chief Whip canlook behind him to find six people sittingbehind him and yet he wants to debatesuch an important Cabinet policy beingtranslated into a Bill. So, I will plead withthe Hon Majority Chief Whip to turnround and see that he does not havesufficient troops here. So, he should bringmore troops before we can continue withthis Bill. Where are his troops?
Hon Majority ChiefWhip, we have a difficulty, but what wewill do is that, I will allow the Statement tobe made now, hoping that by the time theStatement is made, we should be in aposition to take item numbered 12 on theOrder Paper.
Mr Speaker, thankyou. Efforts are being made by my HonDeputies to get our Hon Colleagues whoare in their offices and Committeemeetings to join us.
Very well. I know that part of our challenge is thePublic forum that they are holding on theConstitutional Amendment Bill, 2016, so-- Hon Member for Ada, you have thefloor.
Mr Speaker,thank you. Mr Speaker, the internationalcommunity celebrates World PopulationDay every 11th day of July to focusattention on pertinent population issues. The global theme for the 2016 WorldPopulation Day: “Investing in Teenagers”,re-echoes the recommendations of theICPD-Programme of Action, the BeijingWomen's Conference and the SustainableDevelopment Goals for nations to meetthe needs and aspirations of adolescentgirls, particularly in the areas of education,training and employment opportunities,housing and health, to ensure theparticipation and integration of teenagegirls in all spheres of society. Mr Speaker, according to statistics,teenage girls constitute 15 per cent of thepopulation of Ghanaians and they areexpected to increase to 26 per cent by theyear 2025. The large numbers of teenagegirls present a huge reservoir of energy,and it is important to invest in them toproduce a healthy, well-educated andwell-trained human capital to propel thecountry towards its developmentaspirations. Mr Speaker, formal education is a majoravenue for acquiring and expandingknowledge, and transmitting knowledgefrom one generation to another. Educationalso improves the human stock andenhances labour productivity and povertyreduction. Due to its linkages with the key areasof socio-economic and political life,educating a teenage girl requiresinvestment for the process to become more effective and sustainable to enablethe country produce the human capitalthat will enhance labour productivity andpoverty reduction. Mr Speaker, teenagers are generallyhealthier than adults, but they are alsomore prone to unhealthy diets, erraticphysical activity, use of tobacco, alcoholand hard drugs, unsafe sexual practiceswhich sometimes lead to unsafe abortionsand Sexually Transmitted Infections(STIs), including HIV AIDS. Althoughadolescent birth rate, which is birth togirls aged 15 to 19 in the country has beendecreasing, it is still high. According to available data, rates ofteenage pregnancies in Ghana are high;of all births registered in the country in2014, 30 per cent were by adolescents, and14 per cent of adolescents aged between15 and 19 years had begun childbearing.Regional variations show that, teenagechildbearing is highest in the WesternRegion, recording 21.5 per cent followedby Volta Region 19.5 per cent and EasternRegion 17.2 per cent, with the GreaterAccra region recording the lowestpercentage of 3.6. Mr Speaker, as we mark this year'sWorld Population Day, I would want totake this opportunity to urge us to re-affirmthe role that teenage girls play in ournation's development and to prioritiseinterventions that will facilitate theirtransition to adulthood and responsiblecitizenship. Indeed, the transformation of theeconomy of Ghana, through humancapital development, will depend on theinnovative use of the millions of youngpeople who join the labour force withinthe next 10 to 15 years. It will also dependon the opportunities available for them to
MR FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER
Thank youvery much. Hon Members, two contributions fromeither side of the aisle. Yes, Hon Member?
Thankyou, Mr Speaker. Let me first thank the Hon Minister ofState and Member for Ada, who madethis Statement on the occasion of theWorld Population Day. It is true that investment or investingin teenage girls is sine qua non fordevelopment, and there are reasons forthis. Along with the boys, they form ahuge proportion of our country.Therefore, no country which is seriousabout development could neglect thevalue that we must, of necessity, placeon teenagers in general. The Hon Minister talked abouteducation, training, housing and healthas areas which we should emphasisewhen we make these investments. We allknow that education opens doors whichotherwise would be closed to manypeople if they did not have some formaleducation. Secondly, we know that training alsoopens up opportunities for people whoare desirous of entering the job market ofour country. Housing also offers us thestability of locus to enable us carry outduties as citizens of our country. I believewe all know the advantages of goodhealth, so, I need not over-emphasisethat point. coming out with such a powerfulStatement. Mr Speaker, issues concerningpopulation, especially, the youthfulnessof the population, are critical issues thatmust be given total concentration byevery leader, no matter where we findourselves. Mr Speaker, if you look at theyouthfulness of Ghana's population,teenage boys and girls, their contributionto society should be so critical that if takenseriously they could contribute effec-tively to solving the socio-economicproblems of our country. If care is not given to this sector, thecurious nature of this group of thepopulation, the adventurous nature of thisgroup and how strong they are -- if youlook at the economy of the world, most ofthe innovative strategies, technologiesresearch and recoveries were discoveredby people at their youthful age. Curiosity is one aspect of the youth,therefore, if Ghana's population is blessedwith teenage boys and girls, it should notbe a problem. It should rather be anopportunity to make a very meaningfulimpact on our developmental needs. Mr Speaker, considering the nature ofthe population and looking at theyouthful population together, sometimes,the eagerness to see the aged as notdoing enough is also one of the thinkingand mind-set of the youth. But I thinktransition should be very smooth. So, if the elderly and the young arecombined to research about the needs ofthe aged and the youth, to research aboutwhat we need to do as a country, what weneed to do as a continent -- I mean Africaas a whole -- I think we may be able tocome out with strategies that are going tohelp the socio-economic development ofGhana and Africa as a whole. The point has also been made that,investing in adolescents and youngpeople should prepare them for leadershiproles. It has become a cliché; especially inthis country, that the future leaders of ourcountry are young people. I think it is morethan a cliché. It is an extremely importantfact of life, that many of us in this room,in the next decade and more, wouldprobably be victims of the natural attritionof life. Therefore, our young people mustbe prepared to take our place and I believethis is why it is so important. Mr Speaker, it is true that we need togive younger people or our adolescentsmore space to enable them develop totheir fullest potential. But it is also truethat many of them are victims of certainsocietal norms, especially, the young girls,and this is an area that all of us must beaware of. Finally, Mr Speaker, I wish to say that Ihave a copy of the Statement and I thankthe Hon Member for bringing us this copy.But it says that it is a Statement on thefloor by the Hon Minister for Social andAllied Agencies. A Ministry which weknow does not exist. So, I would cautionthat perhaps, when giving this to the Press,that, should be cancelled out and weshould maybe just have Hon Minister ofState at the Presidency. I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Thank youvery much. Any more comments? Hon Member?
Mr Speaker, thank you very much for theopportunity to make brief comments onthe Statement. Before then, I mustcongratulate my Hon Colleague for
This is how the first President of theRepublic of Ghana, Dr Kwame Nkrumahand other African Leaders such asEmperor Haile Selassie and JomoKenyatta all started. Mr Speaker, I believe they started whenthey were young. From student unions,they were able to liberate the whole ofAfrica. Therefore, we should not overlookthe contribution of our youth and thecontribution of our teenagers. Much aswe expect the best from them, the nationmust also create the enablingenvironment and a conducive atmosphere,to make sure that they are well-trained andwell-shaped according to the directionthat we would want the nation to go, sothat, we might fulfil what the Scripturesays that, “train up the child the way heshould go, and when he grows, hewould not depart from it.” Mr Speaker, I believe science educationmust be taken very seriously. Therefore,I am happy that these days, the mythsurrounding science education has beenbroken, and the youth and teenagers areperforming better in science educationthan even the liberal courses. In thosedays, it was rather the opposite. So, Iknow, looking at what we are getting fromthe youth today, if well supported, infuture, the youth are going to betechnological and innovative instrumentsin the country. Mr Speaker, with these few words, wemust support teenage girls, teenage boysand the youth if we want sustainabledevelopment for our country. I thank you very much for theopportunity.
Yes, HonMember for Tarkwa-Nsuaem?
Thank you, Mr Speaker,for the opportunity to comment on theStatement ably made by my HonColleague, the Hon Member for Ada. Iwould want to thank her for bringing thisissue to the floor of this Parliament. Mr Speaker, the theme for theStatement is, “Investing in Teenage Girls.”I find myself in this position today frombeing a teenage girl. This is somethingthat I would want to urge all and sundry,that if a person has a girl-child -- We arenot saying the boy-child is not important,but the theme today is on teenage girls. Ifmy parents had not invested in me, I wouldnot have been here. There are women inso many positions whose parentsinvested in them. So, I would want tourge all Ghanaians, that it is very useful. This is because, when the gril becomesa teenager, if she is not given the rightinformation, if she is not empowered andif she does not have the necessary thingsthat would make her grow into a goodperson or a healthy individual, her wholefamily would not get the benefit thatpeople might derive from investing inteenage girls. Mr Speaker, in some countries, when agirl reaches her adolescence, she is trainedto ensure that in future, she getssomething to do, so that the children thatshe would bear will also be well-cateredfor. It is true that both parents need to beeducated, but if the woman is educated,the benefits are more. Mr Speaker, in our part of the world,when a girl gets to the adolescent age,she is thought of being married off. Theparents sometimes see it as some sort of Mr Speaker, I would also join my HonColleagues to thank our Hon Minister formaking this Statement concerning teenagegirls in the country. Mr Speaker, I hope we would all agreethat teenage girls that we have in thecountry contribute to the economicdevelopment of this nation. So, the morewe have them in the country, the betterfor the nation. But what is happeningtoday is that, we are not investing in them,for us to reap youthful benefits from theseteenage girls. We as men always go out there tomake them -- excuse me to say, pregnantand -- excuse me to use the word,“irresponsible” refuse to cater for themto continue the jobs or education they areundertaking. It is very essential for us as Ghanaiansand the world over, to take good care ofour teenage girls. This is because, weneed population in the country. If we talkabout agriculture, we need human beingsto go into agro production and agroprocessing. The only sector that couldprovide us with this population, as we arenot yet industrialised, is our teenagegirls. But if we impregnate them at tenderages when they have no experience andno jobs, we are actually damaging thenation as a whole. So, it is very essentialfor us as Ghanaians to take good care ofthese girls. With education, when they grow, andhave professional skills, this nation wouldbe economically stable for us to competeat international levels as other nations aredoing. Nations like Japan and otherEuropean countries, whose populationsare aging are afraid and even trying to getsome of our people there to continue towork in their industries. -- I do not want to use the expressionthat they have some vehicle throughwhich they can make money. So, whetherthe girl likes it or not, they would ask herto get married to a rich man who can givethem money. We are all speaking against early andforced marriages. This is because, ifteenage girls are really empowered, itwould give us more benefits and the wholenation would develop this way. Mr Speaker, I also think that we shouldencourage people to know that, even inchild birth, if the person is educated, theperson takes it a little easier than thosewho are not educated. She knows herwhereabouts, she knows when to go tothe hospital and she knows when to usethe facilities available. But if the person isnot educated or empowered, it becomesvery difficult. That is why we have a lot ofmaternal deaths on our hands becausemajority of our girls are giving birthbetween the ages of 15 and 19, as theHon Minister who made the Statementsaid. So, Mr Speaker, the theme for thisyear's celebration is something that weall need to take into account and really dosomething about. We are only 275 out ofthe whole Ghanaian population, but wecan also do something. Investing inteenage girls is something the wholenation should look at and ensure thatteenage girls are empowered. With these few words, I thank you verymuch for the opportunity.
Thank you, Mr Speaker, for theopportunity.
HonMember, you are veering into areas whichare a bit dangerous.
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am saying that for us to get theseteenagers to give us good procreation inthis country -- [Interruption] -- Wait.We need to educate them --
HonMember, I believe that what you want tosay is that, we should groom them tobecome adults who would then be in abetter position to --
Mr Speaker, that isexactly what I was trying to put across,that before anything at all, education is Mr Speaker, with these few words, Ithank you for the opportunity.
Thank youvery much. Hon Members, this brings us to theend of Statements. However, before wesign off, as indicated by the Hon Memberfor Subin, in the heading, after the word“Minister”, delete and insert “of State atthe Office of the President. Then continuewith “Hon Comfort Doyoe CudjoeGhansah”. Thank you very much.
Yes, HonMajority Chief Whip?
Mr Speaker, I wouldwant to crave your indulgence and thatof the House for us to go to the OrderPaper Addendum, to lay a Paper so thatwe can then continue. Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Very well. Hon Members, Order Paper Addendum.At the Commencement of Public Business,Presentation and First Reading of Bills,Children's (Amendment) Bill, 2016, by theHon Minister for Gender, Children andSocial Protection.
BILLS -- FIRST READING
Mr Speaker,I think what the Chief Whip is telling us isinformative that, when he wasapproached, he asked to be assured andafter the assurance, then he asked thatthe Addendum Order Paper be printed tothat effect. I did not know that it is theChief Whip who is clothed with thatauthority to deal with the publication ofOrder Papers, and indeed, the Addenda. Mr Speaker, I thought this is for theBusiness Committee to decide, but I amnot aware that it has come before --
HonMinority Leader, he faces the music, so,he wanted to be sure that --
Mr Speaker,the information he is providing to us isquite informative.
Mr Speaker, with thegreatest respect, the Hon Minority Leaderknows that I would dare not take theauthority of either the BusinessCommittee or that of the House to myself.The challenge, however, is that, theMajority Leader is not around. and adoptions and to provide forrelated matters. Presented by the Minister for Gender,Children and Social Protection. Readthe First time; referred to the Committeeon Gender and Children.
Mr Speaker,my attention has been drawn to the factthat, last week, some of the Bills that werelaid, the House has not taken custody ofthem and a ruling was made by the Chairthat, by the close of the day, Thursday,we should have sufficient copies in theHouse. In this case, may we be assuredthat we have sufficient copies first --[Interruption.] You are not the House, Hon ChiefWhip. You are not the person in charge ofthat. It is the Table Office. Let them assureus.
HonMembers, please, address the Chair. I believe what the Hon MinorityLeader is asking for is assurance that wehave copies to be distributed, or to besent to the Committee for consideration. Hon Majority Chief Whip, do you haveenough for the Committee members?
Mr Speaker, rightlyso. Mr Speaker, earlier, we had a challengeabout what we had laid. So when thisissue of laying this particular Bill came, Iasked that I should be given one copy, atleast, to be sure that enough copies are inthe House. So, all I am trying to say isthat, I made a crosscheck beforeauthorising that the Addendum beprinted.
HonMajority Chief Whip, if she can give ussome short explanation, I think it wouldnot do any harm since the rules allow forthat to be done.
Mr Speaker, I think it is inher interest to do it and it is in the interestof the Majority bench to do it. This isbecause I am holding the BusinessStatement for the week. If we did not getthe opportunity to discuss it, and it isbeing brought in today, it is in her interestto do that. Otherwise, we may have toobject strongly to the laying in the firstplace, even though it has been done.
HonMembers, I have already given mydirections. I am only obliging, so, yourobjection would not hold any water.
HonMinority Leader, I hope you are notissuing threats. Hon Members, it has beenreferred to the Committee on Gender andChildren for consideration and report, so,shall we move on?
Mr Speaker, we wouldbe grateful if we could take the ThirdReading of the Banks and SpecialisedDeposit-taking Institutions Bill, 2015. Mr Speaker, if we are minded to takeitem numbered 8, I would like to add that Iwould crave your indulgence for theDeputy Minister for Finance to do this onbehalf of the Finance Minister, since hewas the one who virtually took us throughall the stages.
Hon DeputyMinority Leader?
Yes, fair enough.
Very well. Hon Members, item numbered 8 on theOrder Paper -- Motion -- by the DeputyMinister for Finance on behalf of theMinister for Finance.
BILLS --THIRD READING
HonMajority Chief Whip?
Mr Speaker, wewould be careful to take item numbered12. Mr Speaker, Papers have beenpresented and they are in the Businessof the week, but we did not put them onthe main Order Paper. This is because wewere not sure that there were enoughcopies. So, when it came up that they stillwanted to lay, I asked them to ascertainwhether we had enough copies and theyshowed me. So, I said that since theyhave shown that there were enoughcopies, they should go and print. So, it is in line with what had alreadybeen agreed on. I was just making surethat enough copies were available beforewe proceed. It is not that I am taking theauthority of the Business Committee orthat of the House. I am just doing this onbehalf of the Hon Majority Leader, to makesure that we do not repeat the mistakethat because we did not crosscheck, thePapers were laid and issues came up later. Mr Speaker, I am reassuring the HonMinority Leader that I would dare not takethe authority of the Business Committeeand that of the House for granted. Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker,I am not too sure that this amendment Billis part of the Bills that were considered tobe dealt with before the House adjourns.But now that it has come as an amendmentto an original Bill that we have enacted inthis House, perhaps, it may meritconsideration. That being the case, thatis consideration before we adjourn. If thatis so, would the Hon Minister be kindenough to offer us some shortexplanatory statement so that we knowwhat it is about, that is, if we mustconsider it before we adjourn.
Mr Speaker, I wouldwant to plead with the Hon Minority Hon Minister, could you not give ashort resume of what it contains?
Mr Speaker, with the greatestrespect, I would be in a position to give adetailed explanation during the SecondReading, as directed. I am most grateful.
Very well,Hon Minority Leader?
Mr Speaker,if we would really want to be technical, asthe Majority Chief Whip is imploring usto be, the onus is on the Hon Minister. Ifshe deems it fit, she may offer someexplanation.
But I thoughtthat since we had gone through theseMotions and identified the Bills that wewould be dealing with, given the crowdednature of our programme -- We havedealt with Bills that we are going to dealwith before we adjourn. They do notinclude this one and I thought becausethey are bringing it late in the day, we mayhave to deal with it before we adjourn. I said, that being the case, perhaps, itmay be necessary for her to offer us someexplanation, but if she is not inclined, onecannot press, except that if we want to betechnical --
HonMember, I hope you are not issuingthreats --
Mr Speaker,if I may land --
BILLS -- CONSIDERATIONSTAGE
HonChairman of the Committee, I believe thatwe went as far as clause 160, where theQuestion was to be put. There are some other clauses earlier,which have been indicated on the OrderPaper to be taken, but could we start withclause 160 where the Question was to beput and then we continue from there? There has been a debate on that one,and we were left with putting theQuestion, but let us refresh our memories.
Mr Speaker,clause 160, the amendment proposed wasin relation to subclause (6), line 7, afterthe word “trust”, add “account”, so, itwould read from the sixth line; “trust account by cash or bankcheque, an amount equal to theamount withdrawn from the trustaccount.” There was a trust account in line 6, so,the last line, the “account” was omittedafter “trust”, so, we are only adding the“account” to the “trust”, to read “trustaccount”.
Very well. Hon Members, I think the Question wasput with regard to the amendment; it wascarried, but we are left with the Questionregarding clause 160 as amended to standpart of the Bill. Clause 160 as amended ordered tostand part of the Bill. Mr Speaker, I am sorry. Before that,Presentation of Papers. I have seen theHon Deputy Minister for Food andAgriculture. I would like to crave yourindulgence for him to lay this Paper onbehalf of the Hon Minister for the Interior,the Immigration Service Regulation 2016.
Item numbered 4.
Are yousure? Hon Majority Chief Whip, could youtake a close look at what you are referringto? You would like him to do it on behalfof the Minister for the Interior?
We have to becareful. He is the Deputy Minister forFood and Agriculture. This is the Interior,and we are asking him to lay the Paper.Supposing that he has to say somethingabout it, is he conversant --[Interruption.] Mr Speaker, I served on the Committeeon Defence and Interior and this is aserious matter, so we have to be careful. Ifhe is not here, we should go past it.
Mr Speaker, if it isgoing to be that controversial -- I thoughtwe were going to help the House to getout most of the businesses which arenot controversial, but since they wantthe Hon Minister for the Interior, we wouldarrange to get the Hon Minister or hisDeputy to come and do it. So, Mr Speaker, we would take the itemnumbered 12, that is the SecuritiesIndustry Bill, 2015. Clause 161 -- Appointment andqualification of auditor
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 161, subclause (2), paragraph (b),sub-paragraph (iii), line 1, after “body”insert “corporate”. Mr Speaker, this is consequential. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 161, subclause (4), paragraph (a),line 2, delete “a fine” and insert “anadministrative penalty”. Mr Speaker, this is also consequential. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 161, subclause (4), paragraph (b),line 2, delete “a fine” and insert “anadministrative penalty”. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 161, subclause (6), line 1, delete“fourteen” and insert “thirty” and in line3, delete “person” and insert “auditor”.
“Within thirty days after a vacancyoccurs in the office of an auditor ofa broker-dealer, if there is nosurviving or continuing auditor ofthe broker-dealer, the broker-dealer shall appoint any other auditor tofill the vacancy.” Question put and amendment agreedto.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 161, subclause (9), delete Mr Speaker, this clause is not relevanthere, because we would meet the same inclause 197. So, we are moving it fromclause 161 to 197. Question put and amendment agreedto. Clause 161 as amended ordered tostand part of the Bill. Clause 162 ordered to stand part of theBill. Clause 163 -- Fees and expenses ofauditors.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 163, line 1, delete “Thereasonable” and insert “Reasonable”.
“the”. So, it would read: “Reasonable fees and expenses ofan auditor of a broker-dealer arepayable by the broker-dealer.” Question put and amendment agreedto. Clause 163 as amended ordered tostand part of the Bill. Clause 164 -- Accounts and reportingrequirements of broker-dealer.
Mr Speaker, I would firstof all want to correct the reference madeon the Order Paper. The subclause in clause 164 should besubclause (1), and not subclause (6). Claused 166 as amended ordered tostand part of the Bill. Clause 167 and 168 ordered to standpart of the Bill. Clause 169 -- Power of Court torestrain the operation of a trust account.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 169, paragraph (e), line 2, delete“section”. The new rendition reads: “… under PartFour” Question put and amendment agreedto. Clause 169 as amended ordered tostand part of the Bill. Clause 170 -- Duty of banker to makefull disclosure.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 170, headnote, delete “banker” andinsert “a bank”. The headnote will read: “Duty of a bank to make fulldisclosure”. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 170, opening paragraph, lines 1 and2, delete “banker, the banker” and insert“bank, the bank” Question put and amendment agreedto.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 170, paragraph (a), line 3, delete“banker” and insert “bank”. Question put and amendment agreedto. It will then read: “stock exchange”. Question put and amendment agreedto. Clause 175 as amended ordered tostand part of the Bill. Clause 176 -- Fund to be kept inseparate bank account.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 176, line 3, delete “in Ghana” andinsert “account in the country”. The new rendition will read: “or transferred into a bank accountin the country.” Question put and amendment agreedto. Clause 176 as amended ordered tostand part of the Bill. Clause 177 ordered to stand part of theBill. Clause 178 -- Accounts of FidelityFund.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 178, subclause (1), line 2, after“fund”, delete the words to the end ofline 3. Mr Speaker, the new rendition will endat ‘fund'. So, it will read, “A stock exchange shall establishand keep proper accounts of itsfidelity fund.” Question put and amendment agreedto. Clause 178 as amended ordered tostand part of the Bill. Clause 179 --
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 164, subclause (6), line 5, delete“accounting principles” and insert“internationally acceptable accountingstandards” and in line 9, before “matters”insert “and”. Mr Speaker, the Committee is correctingthe “accounting principles” there, with“internationally accepted accountingstandards”, containing the prescribedinformation and matters. Question put and amendment agreedto. Clause 164 as amended ordered tostand part of the Bill. Clause 165 ordered to stand part of theBill. Clause 166 -- Certain matters to bereported to Commission.
Mr Speaker, again, I wouldlike to correct the amendment proposedon the Order Paper. The amendmentshould read as subclause (2), paragraph(a), line 1, after “has adversely,” insert“affected”.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 166, subclause (2), paragraph (a),line 1, after “has adversely” insert“affected”.
“…has adversely affected, isadversely affecting or mayadversely affect the ability of thebroker-dealer to meet an obligationas a broker-dealer”. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 170, paragraph (b), line 3, delete“banker” and insert “bank”. Question put and amendment agreedto. Clause 170 as amended ordered tostand part of the Bill. Clause 171 ordered to stand part of theBill. Clause 172 -- Power of Court to makeorder relating to payment of moneys.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 172, subclause (1), opening phrase,line 2, delete “moneys” and insert“money” and do same wherever “moneys”appear in the clause unless the contextotherwise differs. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Mr Speaker, this is aconsequential amendment. The word “are”in line 2 should be “is” -- “to whom themoney is paid”.
Very well, itis an uncountable noun so -- Question put and amendment agreedto. Clause 172 as amended ordered tostand part of the Bill. Clauses 173 and 174 ordered to standpart of the Bill. Clause 175 -- Moneys constitutingfidelity fund.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 175, paragraph (a), line 2, before“exchange” insert “stock”.
Yes, HonMinority Leader?
Mr Speaker,I have been up for a while, but it lookslike you were overly concentrating on theclauses. Clause 178, the Hon Chairman ofthe Committee indicated to us insubclause (1) that we should delete allthe words after ‘fund' for it to read: “A stock exchange shall establishand keep proper accounts of itsfidelity fund.” Now, subsequently, what we havedeleted is for it to avail the statement toan auditor that the governing body shallappoint. I guess it is not to the Auditor-General and that is why we have thatprovision which is calling for its deletion.So, if indeed, we are deleting that, whathappens to subclause (2)?
Yes, HonChairman of the Committee?
Mr Speaker, clause 197talks about accounts -- how the companyor a person, who is described as an issuer,and the accounts that he is supposed tokeep and the process of the audit. Now,the fidelity fund is part of the accountsthat the issuer is to prepare. So, inreference to clause 179, there is no needto state here: “within three months after the endof the financial year, you need toprepare accounts for only thefund.” That would form part of the completeset of accounts that would be preparedby the issuer and that would be audited.So, that is why the Committee is of theview that the portion that relates to ‘withinthree months', prepare accounts andforward it to the Auditor-General is notrelevant here. So, we deleted it and then,under clause 197, it covers all.
Mr Speaker, it is notneeded there because it is already underclause 3 (b). It is not needed at the openingstatement because it is the auditor who isgoing to do it under subclause (3)(b).
HonMinority Leader, are you all right with it?
Mr Speaker,I guess the explanation from the HonChairman and the Ranking Member are abit conflicting. The Hon Chairman'sexplanation seems to be running counterto what the Hon Ranking Member said. He is proposing that because we haveit in clause 197, and clause 197 is differentwhat he is drawing our attention to isdifferent and that is why I am saying thatwe are in a bit of confusion there.
Mr Speaker, what the HonRanking Member read, the subclause(3)(b) is actually under the Auditor-General simply because if you readsubclause (3), it states: “The auditor appointed by thegoverning body shall, (a) Regularly and fully audit thefinancial statement of thefidelity fund, and (b) Present the financialstatement to the governingbody. So, that is not the duty of the stockexchange.
Yes, HonRanking Member?
Mr Speaker, the HonChairman just confirmed what I said. Thisis because the fund does not do that; itis the auditor. That is why it was removedat the opening statement. Clauses 179, 180 and 181 ordered tostand part of the Bill. Clause 182 -- Levy of liabilities.
Yes, HonChairman of the Committee? Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu --rose --
Sorry, HonMinority Leader?
Mr Speaker,respectfully, I think we should have adistinction between the work to be doneby the auditor appointed by the Fund, andthe work of the Auditor-General. This isthe work of the auditor appointed by theFund, not the Auditor-General.[Interruptions.] That is what I am saying. So, I amsaying that we should draw a distinctionbetween what the Auditor-General may berequired to do and what the auditorappointed by the Fund will do. Now, this is the auditor appointed bythe Fund and he does -- what does hedo in clause 178 (3)? “The auditor appointed by thegoverning body shall regularly andfully audit the financial statementsof the fidelity fund and presentfinancial statements to thegoverning body not later than threemonths at the end of the financialyear”. By the auditor appointed by thegoverning body of the fund. Mr Speaker, what is the distinction between what isrequired to be done by the auditorappointed by the fund itself and theAuditor-General?
No! HonMember, I think that, it has been made veryclear in the preceding clauses whoappoints the auditor. It is clear, it is notthe Auditor-General. Yes, Hon Chairman?
Mr Speaker, this is theStock Exchange which is a privatecompany, or let us say a public company,not under Government. These privatecompanies are permitted to appoint theirown auditors, not Auditor-General. So, itis completely different from the role ofthe Auditor-General in this case. This isthe account of the Securities ExchangeCommission. No! This is the account of the StockExchange, which is a private company andthe governing body of that company willappoint an auditor to do this financialstatement of the fund. It is different fromthe Auditor-General. This is because thisis not talking about the account of theExchange Commission.
HonMinority Leader, are you clear with theexplanation given?
Mr Speaker,I get the explanation. I am just askingwhether in this case, there could be a rolefor the Auditor-General, whether theAuditor-General is not required to do anyauditing at all? Mr Speaker, I said so because in someother jurisdictions, where we havewitnessed a collapse of the StockExchange, the Auditor-Generals of thosecountries have been called in to audit the
accounts because it relates to someaspects of public deposits. And then,whatever has ensued, of course, we knowthe history. That is why I am askingwhether it may not be required of theAuditor-General to perform any function,at least, at this stage.
Mr Speaker, the Auditor-General has no role to play here at all. It isa private company and the Commissionsays that you have to have the accountof the Fidelity Fund prepared and auditedby the auditor appointed by the go-verning body of that company, which isthe security exchange. The Auditor-General has no role,because this is a completely private entity.If we are talking about the account of theSecurity Exchanges Commission, theAuditor-General has a role to play. But thisis the account of the stock exchange,which is a company on its own and forthat matter, they appoint their ownauditors.
Chairmanof the Committee, where did we get to?Clause 182, Hon Members. Clause 182 -- Levy of liabilities
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 182, subclause (1), line 3, before“exchange”, insert “stock”. Mr Speaker, this is consequential. Question put and amendment agreedto. Clause 182 as amended ordered tostand part of the Bill. Clauses 183 and 184 ordered to standpart of the Bill. Clause 185 -- Application of fidelityfund
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 185, subclause (1), paragraph, (a),line 2, before “exchange”, insert “stock”. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 185 subclause (1), paragraph (b),line 2, before “exchange”, insert “stock”. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Mr Speaker,in the Interpretation column, the use ofthe word “exchange” has been defined. Ido not know whether the Hon Chairmanhas addressed his mind to that, where itmeans “a facility for the trading ofsecurities, commodities or derivatives”. Ido not know whether the Hon Chairmanhas adverted his mind to it. If he has,then those insertions would not benecessary.
Mr Speaker, we are awareof this. This is not what is being referredto here. The stock exchange here is not aplace for trading in securities, but this isthe company we are talking about. So, itis different from the definition providedhere. That is why we are adding “stock”to differentiate it from the definitionprovided.
HonMembers, if you go through theInterpretation column, you would see thedefinition of “stock exchange”. It “means a market, exchange, a facilityor any other place at which or onwhich securities are offered for sale,purchase or exchange.”
Mr Speaker,furthermore, there are several exchanges;futures exchange and derivativesexchange. So, here, we want the stockexchange to be precise.
Mr Speaker, I just want tofind out, looking at the nature of theHouse, whether we are taking decisionsor just discussing?
Mr Speaker, I think it isa very relevant question.
In effectHon Member, I think that you must bepoint blank that you are raising thequestion of quorum. That is the effect ofwhat you are doing.
Mr Speaker, we can discussand make decisions later when we havethe numbers. I am not complaining, but Ijust want to know. That is all.
Mr Speaker, herconcerns are well noted. But we wouldcarry on. She is asking whether we aretaking this, but her concerns are wellnoted. So, we would organise ourselvesand bring Hon Members in.
HonMembers, I direct that the bell be rung.
Mr Speaker, theConstitutional, Legal and ParliamentaryAffairs Committee and other Committeesare sitting. Should we call them in?
That is whyI am directing that the bell be rung. In theinterim, you can take whatever steps youneed to take.
Mr Speaker, I want tounderstand the Hon Member for Tarkwa-Nsuaem's question. She asked if we arejust discussing. I know in Parliament, we do not just discuss. So, it cannot be thatwe are just discussing. We cannot do that.
That is whyI said that I could read what she wasdirecting at.
We are deliberating.
Mr Speaker, sometimes,you see in the Votes and Proceedings,“Question to be put”. So, if we discussand we do not have the numbers to takedecisions, we could discuss and defer thedecisions. Sometimes, it is allowed. But ifwe are taking decisions on clauses, then Iam afraid the nature of the House doesnot call for decisions to be made.
Mr Speaker,because these are not normal times,Committees with referrals have to expediteaction on all the referrals. The Committeeon Education is considering theUniversity Bills, the Constitutional, Legaland Parliamentary Affairs Committee isholding a public forum on the referralmade to them. So, clearly, if they have tosuspend and come here, it would bedifficult for the House to also have reportsor recommendations of these Committeesfor us to take decisions on them. So, I ampleading with my Hon Colleague to --
HonMembers, put yourselves in my shoes.The issue has been raised and I have togo by the rules. So, I have directed thatthe bell be rung. Shall we continue?
The Hon DeputyMajority Whip knows that these are notnormal times. But when there are abnormaltimes, he as a Whip must take abnormalsteps to correct that abnormality. He hasnot done so, yet he is pleading. He shouldtake abnormal measures to correct thatabnormality. So, he should not just plead.
Mr Speaker, thatis precisely why my bosses are not here.The Hon Majority Chief Whip has takenthe sense of the House and is doing hiswork, whipping Hon Members in, amongothers.
Yes,Chairman of the Committee, where did weget to? The second one?
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 185, subclause (2), line 2, before“loss” insert “pecuniary” and in line 3,before “exchange”, insert “stock”. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 185, subclause (6), line 2, delete“(4)” and insert “(5)”. Mr Speaker, it is cross-referencing. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 185, subclause (8), line 1, delete“subsection” and insert “subsections”and in line 4, before “exchange”, insert“stock” and also before “loss”, insert“pecuniary”. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 185, subclause (9), line 2, before“exchange”, insert “stock” and also inlines 3 and 7, before “loss”, insert“pecuniary”. Question put and amendment agreedto. Clause 185 as amended ordered tostand part of the Bill. Clause 186 — Claims against fidelityfund
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 186, subclause (3), line 7, before“loss”, insert “pecuniary”. Question put and amendment agreedto. Clause 186 as amended ordered tostand part of the Bill. Clause 187 ordered to stand part of theBill. Mr Kyei-Mensah-Bonsu — rose --
“2) A claim for compensation from afidelity fund in respect of amisappropriation of moneysshall be made in writing to thegoverning body”. Mr Speaker, just to agitate the mind ofthe Committee, would they consider onlymisappropriation of moneys or perhaps,to involve as well, misapplication ofmoneys? Would we deal with onlymisappropriations or we could also, alongthe same line, deal with misapplication ofmoneys?
Mr Speaker, yes, thesponsors told us that this is only formisappropriation and not misapplication— [Interruption] — that is for claims thatare being made from the fidelity fund inrespect of misappropriation and notmisapplication. Mr Speaker, misapplication is notconsidered to be something that weshould make a claim here. But once it is misappropriation, we claim and for thatmatter, we make application in writing tothe governing body. So, we do not make aclaim if it is misapplication, but we do if itis misappropriation and we write to thegoverning body. That is the reason. Mr Speaker, if my Hon Colleague thinksthat we should add, “misapplication” thenwe should know why it should be added.This is because, in our view, it is only“misappropriation” that warrants a claim.
Mr Speaker, I believe inthat sense, “misapplication” could be oneform of “misappropriation”. So, thecontext would cover the issue that theHon Minority Leader is concerned about.But I believe, “misappropriation” is betterhere than “misapplication”.
HonChairman of the Committee, how do yourespond?
Mr Speaker,I agree with the Hon Ranking Memberthat, some form of misapplication couldreally translate into misappropriation. Butit is not all misapplications that meanmisappropriation, which is the issue thatI am raising. But it looks like the Hon Chairman isnot even following. He is in seriousconversation.
HonChairman, it is a bit disturbing. If you arecompletely leaving out “misapplication”,where do we stand in a situation where,for example, the Hon Ranking Member issaying that, some misapplications can beconsidered to be misappropriation? So,where do we draw the line?
Mr Speaker, I believe ifmisapplication fits into the description of“misappropriation”, then it crosses the lineand qualifies under, “misappropriation”and so, application must be made for that.But if it does not fit as a misappropriation,then it does not qualify —[Interruption.] Mr Speaker, the Hon Minority Leaderis asking me to read what has been passedfrom behind to me, and I am going to read: “The fund operates just like theBanks and Deposit Insurance Bill.If the moneys are misapplied, thenthe investor can sue the fundmanager. If the moneys are howevermisappropriated, then the fund…” Mr Speaker, I cannot find some of thewords, I believe that the distinction hasbeen made clear; that the owners of thecompany could sue the fund manager formisapplying their fund, for something thatthey have not authorised the fundmanager to do. But if it is misappropriation, then thefund takes the responsibility. That is whythe clause says; any claim for acompensation from the fidelity fund inrespect of misappropriation of moneys,then that shall be made in writing to thegoverning body of the exchange. This isthe distinction that they have given. Withmisapplication, the investors have a role,but the governing body of the exchangetakes over with misappropriation.
Mr Speaker,misappropriation involves completedissipation. We are saying that, we cannoteven sue in that case. But if a personmisapplies — if, for instance, there is avirement from one purpose to another,without proper authority, that could bemisapplication, and we are saying that aperson could go to court in that case, butone could not go to court when there is a
HonMinority Leader, maybe, what they arethinking of is, what constitutes“misapplication” that can be determinedby a court after taking the evidence, andif the evidence is to the effect that it hasbeen misapplied, then the plaintiff wouldbe entitled to whatever orders the courtmay make. But with misappropriation, it looks sortof criminality straightaway. I am not toosure if I am doing the right thing.
Mr Speaker, the purpose ofthe fidelity fund is to support orindemnify; it is like an insurance. So, if aninvestor invests money and the fundmanager misapplies the fund, he cannotgo to the fidelity fund and take the moneyfrom there. So, he cannot apply under‘misapplication' for a claim from the fund. Mr Speaker, but where the fund ismisappropriated as you said, it issomething that the company iscontributing to in the form of an insurancepremium towards the fidelity fund, andfor that matter, you qualify to apply for aclaim under that fund. If it is misappliedby the fund manager, it is between theinvestor and the fund manager. This isbecause the investor gave an instruction-- invest my fund in security “A” and“B”. If he goes and invests in security“C”, the investor can take action againsthim.
Which willbe more of a civil action than anythingelse. Yes, Hon Deputy Minority Leader?
Mr Speaker, if you justlook at the dictionary meaning of the twowords, then you can situate it in context.This is because ‘misapplication' isespecially illegal use or misuse of whateveryou want to do, and that is unauthorised.But the synonym for ‘misappropriation'is theft which means you are stealing --embezzlement; so that one is criminal.When you compare the two words, youcan then situate it with that --[Interruption.] ‘Misappropriation' is more seriousthan ‘misapplication'.
The HonMinority Leader does not appear to besatisfied. [Pause.] Yes, Hon Chairman of the Committee?
Mr Speaker, I would wantto bring the attention of Hon Members toclause 185 as we have in the Bill which ison page 108. “Application of fidelity fund Subject to this Part, a fidelity fundshall be held and applied for thepurpose of compensating personswho suffer pecuniary loss from amisappropriation of moneyscommitted by a licensed broker-dealer of the stock exchange or adirector or partner or by anemployee of the licensed broker-dealer of the stock exchange inrelation to money or other propertywhich in the course of or inconnection with the business of thatlicensed broker-dealer…” And it follows. So, the claims thatone could make against the fidelity fundis the loss that he has suffered as a resultof misappropriation.
HonMembers, I allowed this debate tocontinue despite the fact that I had alreadyput the Question and it had been carried.This is because I thought that it couldinform us as a House. Mr Nitiwul — rose --
Yes, HonDeputy Minority Leader?
Mr Speaker, I think theissue is now very clear. This is because inmisapplication, there may not benecessary loss of funds to the investor.[Interruption.] There could be gain -- itis just that you are not doing what hewanted you to do.
It is as simple as that. Iwant to buy stocks from, maybe, GuinessGhana Breweries Limited and you go andbuy stocks from Fan Milk Limited -- youmay make money for me but you havemisapplied my funds. I did not ask you todo that. But with misappropriation, youjust “chop” my money. You have swindledme of my money, “chopped” andembezzled and so, I have lost my money.[Laughter.]
- And I havesuffered lost therefrom. Yes, Hon Member?
Mr Speaker,with misapplication and misappropriation,misappropriation has to do with theintent, that you have the intention to dosomething wrong but with misapplication,unless the person could not explainhimself or herself well. Maybe, you askedme to buy a book and I bought a yellowbook instead of a white book. So, I hadno intention whatsoever to misappropriate the fund and that is misapplication.
Mr Speaker,that is at the heart of the issue that I amraising. If we go to clause 185 and the followingclauses as well: they are referring tomisappropriation. I am drawing yourattention to the other side --misapplication. I am asking why we arenot talking about the two together -- Thatsays you can raise it. I noticed that youhave used ‘misappropriation' throughoutwhich is criminal. And he is saying that inthe case of misappropriation, one couldgo to court --
This isbecause it is between the investor and thefund. But with regard to ‘misappropriation',it could still end up in court, where acomplaint is lodged with the police forinvestigations, for example.
Mr Speaker,that precisely is the reason I am asking whatexplains why we are not talking about“misapplication”. It is because “misapplication”may not be criminal, even though it may reallyinvolve usage which is not authorised,which is still serious though.
Mr Speaker, the claim is notfor the amount misappropriated. It is anypecuniary loss suffered as a result ofmisappropriation that you are claiming.That is what the law is talking about. Ifyour amount is misappropriated, and yousuffer pecuniary loss as a result of that,you make a claim for that loss and not theamount itself -- the loss that you suffered.
Mr Speaker, it seemsthe appropriate word here is ‘misappro-priation' because there is the notion thatsome embezzlement has taken place.Misappropriation may not lead to anypecuniary loss and so, I think that is whymisappropriation is better here.
Very well. So, we go on to clause 188, right? Chairman of the Committee? Clause 188 -- Power of governing bodyto settle claims
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 188, subclause (2), paragraph (b),line 5, before “exchange”, insert “stock”and in line 6, before “loss”, insert“pecuniary”.
HonMembers, I will put the Question. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Yes, HonChairman of the Committee?
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 188, subclause (4), line 2, delete“detailed”.
“The governing body afterdisallowing whether wholly orpartly, a claim for compensationfrom a fund”.
I will putthe Question. Question put and amendment agreedto
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 188, subclause (6), line 3, before“exchange”, insert “stock” and in line 6,before “exchange”, insert “stock”. Mr Speaker, this is consequential. It has to do with the intention -- theintent of the person. Though it is illegal butit is the intent. So, with misappropriation,you have decided to do something wrongbut with misapplication, you thought youwere doing something right, but it hasended up being wrong.
Yes, the finalcomment.
But a very smart brokercould misapply with the intent ofmisappropriating, especially if he goes tothe line of derivatives -- It is a verycomplicated structure. So, a very smartbroker could misapply with the intentionof misappropriating.
Very well. Hon Members, I think it has been avery healthy debate, but I think we wouldmove on. The Committee can take asecond look at it if they so wish. The HonMinority Leader could also pursue it atthe Second Consideration Stage.
Very well, MrSpeaker. Mr Speaker, but just as my HonColleague there was talking about abroker takes the fund or part of it, investsin some high yielding enterprise with theintent of restocking. It ends up in a verybizarre manner -- For example, God-isLove Fun Club. Mr Speaker, they have very seriousrepercussions and I am saying that weshould have a second look. But I agreewith you that, maybe, we have to take itthrough a Second Consideration Stage. Iwish that, maybe, we should have givenit a proper and better thinking through, tosee whether to pursue it.
All right. Iwill put the Question. Question put and amendment agreedto.
HonMembers, I would put the Question withregard to clause 188 as variouslyamended standing part of the Bill.
Mr Speaker, there is onemore.
One more?[Interruption.] Very well.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 188, subclause (7), paragraph (b),line 2, delete “would” and insert “may”.
“The evidence on which thegoverning body or the Court actsmay not be sufficient”.
Very well. I will put the Question. Question put and amendment agreedto.
Yes, HonMinority Leader?
Mr Speaker,this is a minor matter in respect of clause188 (7) and I beg with your permission,to quote: “The governing body or, whereproceedings are brought toestablish a claim, the Court, if satisfiedthat there is misappropriation ofmoneys on which the claim isfounded was actually committed,may allow the claim and actaccordingly…” Mr Speaker, I am saying so because, ifyou look at clause 188 (2), it says and Ibeg to quote: “Subject to subsection (3), a personshall not commence legal proceedingsunder this Part against a stockexchange without leave of thegoverning body…” Mr Speaker, at the very outset, onecannot commence any legal action unlesshe or she routes it through the governingbody. Now, after the governing body hasrefused to grant leave to him or her, theironly recourse is the court. Why are we saying that the courtsthen may allow the claim? [Interruption.] Yes, it says if they are satisfied thatthe misappropriation of the moneys onwhich the claim is founded was actuallycommitted.
But HonMember, probably, we are looking at asituation where we do not try to tie thehands of the court because there couldbe certain circumstances, apart from justgetting evidence that the crime has beencommitted. So, if you say, “shall”, it mightappear as if you are putting pressure onthe court.
Mr Speaker,I am saying so because, if you look at theconstruction, it is not as if one is bringingthe matter to the court for them to makethe determination. In fact, somedetermination has already been made, thatindeed, the court is satisfied that themisappropriation of the moneys on whichthe claim is founded was actuallycommitted. [Interruption.] They have already made thatdetermination. [Interruption.] No! It is not done by the governingbody. The governing body, in this case,has refused the leave.
Mr Speaker, yes, butthere may be other considerations for thecourt to look at. It is not because thegoverning body has brought it, then thecourt automatically says, “I am takingyour word and going on with it.” I believe we have to be careful. Thecourt must be seen to be doing morehomework than just accepting the workof the governing body and say, theywould give a claim. So, I believe, we cannotcompel the court to do that. [Pause.]
HonMinority Leader, I believe the situationwhich we are looking at, the matter wouldhave been sent to court. The court wouldhave gone through a trial or taking ofevidence, and when it is satisfied that,yes, then, if we say, “shall”, I do not thinkit would be right to take away the powerof the court to decide, based on certainother circumstances; what kind of actionshould flow. [Pause.] This is because, if you continue -- Let me just read through what we havehere: “… the Court, if satisfied, thatmisappropriation of moneys onwhich the claim is founded wasactually committed, may allow theclaim and act accordingly, despitethe fact that: a) the person who committed themisappropriation has not been convicted or prosecutedfor the act; or b) the evidence on which thegoverning body or the Courtacts may not be sufficient toestablish the guilt of the personon a criminal trial in respect ofthe misappropriation”. So, there are certain extenuatingcircumstance. [Pause.] Yes, Hon Members, again, this is aclause in respect of which the Questionhas been put, and the “ayes” have carriedthe day before this issue was raised. Hon Members, may we move on? Clause 188 as amended ordered tostand part of the Bill.
Yes,Chairman of the Committee?
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 190 --
Mr Speaker, you didnot put the Question on the clause 189.There was no amendment on that. Ibelieve you would have to put theQuestion on clause 189 before we cometo clause 190.Mr First Deputy Speaker: Very well. So, I will put the Question with regardto clause 189 standing part of the Bill. Clause 189 ordered to stand part of theBill. Clause 190 -- Power of governing bodyto require production of securities
Mr Speaker, I beg to move,clause 190, subclause (1), paragraph (b),line 2, before “exchange”, insert “stock”.
Very well. Iwill put the Question. Yes, Hon Ranking Member of theCommittee?
Mr Speaker, I was goingto remind you of what you said earlier,that you were not given a choice and youwere following our Standing Orders. Mr Speaker, I just want to remind youthat under our Standing Orders, it is tenminutes after the bell has been rung. Thisis just in case you have forgotten it.
Very well;point well taken. Question put and amendment agreedto. Clause 190 as amended ordered tostand part of the Bill.
HonMembers, in the light of the issue raisedwith regard to quorum, and the fact thateven after the ringing of the bell, we arestill handicapped, I direct that we bringproceedings to a close. Hon Members, but first, I would haveto bring the Consideration Stage of theSecurities Industry Bill, 2015 to a closefor today.
Mr Speaker, in fact,the Hon Member did not raise an issue onquorum. He asked you what we were doing. So,no Standing Order was invoked.
I was reminding the HonFirst Deputy Speaker that he said he wasfollowing the Rules. So, just in case hehas forgotten, the ten minutes hadelapsed. So, that is all I was asking him.
HonMembers, when the bell was rung, tenminutes had since elapsed, but we stillhave the same situation. So, I am compelled -- In fact, I amconstrained -- [Laughter] -- To applythe Rule. Hon Minority Leader, do you havesomething to say?
Mr Speaker,I know we are still at the ConsiderationStage, that is why I am bringing this tothe fore now. The issue that I raised in respect ofclause 188 (7) -- Clause 189 is a rehash ofclause 188 (7) and, with your permission,it provides: “(7) The governing body or, whereproceedings are brought toestablish a claim, the Court, ifsatisfied that the misappropriationof moneys on which the claim isfounded was actually committed,may allow the claim and actaccordingly, despite the fact that…” Mr Speaker, I was talking about the useof the word “may” in clause 188 (7). Clause 189 is just a rehash of clause188 (7); but here, the court is compelledto make an order.
HonMinority Leader, can you please, look atthe headnotes of the two clauses? Clause 188 is “Power of governingbody to settle claims” and clause 189 is“Orders of court on establishment ofclaim”.
Mr Speaker,I do appreciate that. I am just saying that clause 188 (7)gives the court some room to operate. Itsays that the court may allow the claim. Mr Speaker, whereas a restatement ofthe same provision in clause 189 is thatthe court is compelled to make an order--That is the problem I am talking about. Mr Speaker, it does not really takeanything away if it is situated in anotherclause. Mr Speaker, so, I agree that we mayhave to adjourn, but I am just commendingsame to the Committee. They should havea second look at it.
TheCommittee should look at these issues,so that at the next opportunity, we canhave a look at them. Hon Members, but in the meantime, Idirect that this House be adjourned till10.00 o'clock in the forenoon on Tuesdaynext.
The House was adjourned at 12.36p.m. till Tuesday, 12th July, 2016 at 10.00a.m.